Kayshia (00:30)
Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of the Paradigm Shift podcast. Today we are going to dive into an exploration of the mind's power and just how it shapes our realities, both personally but also professionally. I'm so excited to talk about the impact of imagery, imagination, and mental rehearsal. And joining us today is Mariana Lead, a master certified coach, educator, and
founder of Goal Imagery Coaching Academy. She has extensive experience in coaching and mentoring and she's going to help us bridge the powerful mental tools to our professional lives. So really excited to have you here. Thank you so much, Mariana.
Marianna Lead (01:13)
Thank you so much for having me on your podcast. I'm looking forward to our conversation.
Kayshia (01:20)
Absolutely. So Marianna, you've worked with countless leaders across various industries. I want us to start with imagination, a tool that's usually associated with creativity, less so with leadership, even though we have studies that find that creativity and leadership are super critical. Creativity is a super power for leaders. So how can leaders use their imaginative abilities to inspire, align their teams,
with broader organizational goals.
Marianna Lead (01:53)
Yes, well, thank you for that question. I don't think that it's possible to be a true leader if you don't have a vision. Because without a vision, where are you taking people who are going to be following you? There is no reason, there is no purpose, there's no passion, right? I mean, we have research now, a lot of it, that emotions are contagious, right? So how are you going to...
give that emotion to others. How are you going to spread that passion if you don't have it yourself? I mean, you can do like a rah rah speeches, but if you don't feel it, if you don't believe it, you know, people are going to pick up on that and they're not going to follow you. And so I think it's really important to have a vision and to have a clear vision and yet be flexible enough.
to allow opportunities to come in. So maybe you have a vision, but maybe the reality is not going to pan out exactly as you plan. So you have to be open and yet you have to have some kind of a vision with a spine. You you have to have some non-negotiables and negotiables within your vision. And that takes imagination. can't imagine, you can't know about your
You can't even decide what you really want on the menu. Like if you go to a restaurant and you look at the menu, you can't even decide what you're going to have unless you visualize, unless you imagine what it's going to taste like. Right? So it's kind of similar.
Kayshia (03:32)
I will.
Such a great analogy for visualizing and how clearly that plays a crucial role in shaping that vision. I would love to hear more about how leaders can use that imaginative ability to kind of set them up for that effectiveness, for that success. So I walk into the restaurant, I have a vision for what I want to eat. How does that really play out?
Marianna Lead (04:01)
Well, you may not even know what you want to eat, right? Until you see the menu. And, right? So I think there are so many tools for creating goals, so many tools for project management, just so many tools and templates for every single phase of leadership and so many studies on leadership. Like when you Google,
leadership strength, you're to come up with documents anywhere from 10 to 1000 leadership strengths. And it becomes really overwhelming. But it boils down to finding something that's unique to you. Because your personality is going to feed the idea behind your business. I mean, this is why Apple became so popular. Because someone
Kayshia (04:42)
Mm.
Marianna Lead (04:55)
brought their personality into it. And they said, well, you know, it wouldn't care if we are more expensive than other brands. We're going to promote freedom and creative choices. And so it became a status symbol. Well, I have a Mac. I know you have a Mac, right? It became something that people want regardless of comparison charts. And I think that
That's what real leadership is. Find something that you resonate strongly with. When I'm talking to people who are setting up their businesses and thinking through, often enough, the consideration goes to what are they going to think? People who are looking from outside in.
Kayshia (05:40)
Hmm.
Marianna Lead (05:43)
how attractive this idea is. And so even though it's important, but I think it's step two, it's not a step one. I think first they have to figure out what you want and then you strategize how to make it possible and appealing, right? But first, so because you can't match it to other opinions, because there's going to be always someone who's going to not like it.
Kayshia (06:07)
Such a powerful statement that you say, and what I'm hearing you share is authenticity and having a genuine understanding of yourself, so that bringing that self-awareness forward is what will work at the end of the day. That's what's going to drive success, is what is authentic to you as a leader. It's sustainable, as opposed to...
As you mentioned, step two, matching your ideas to everyone else's opinions, that's not sustainable. You will be changing constantly to be able to adapt and it won't be aligned with your core personality traits, right? I love that.
Marianna Lead (06:50)
I absolutely agree. you know, there's again, the pushback that sometimes I get is, well, you have to understand market trends and you have to adapt because otherwise who is going to buy your services or your products. But there's a difference. There's a difference between understanding market trends and consistently updating and tweaking your offers. Because when you're updating and tweaking your offers, the main idea remains the same.
It's like your, it's the essence of who you are, right? You know, so the essence of who we are, our DNA doesn't change, but it may express itself differently, right? You know, so this is exactly it. You create the DNA of your business and it is based on actually on the DNA of a leader. We just have to really understand what it is and which part of it we want to express.
And then it's always work in progress clearly, because you do have to strategize how to sell whatever you created, but that's step two.
Kayshia (07:52)
I immediately found myself wanting to go to step two as well and I'm sure you hear this with a lot of leaders. My next question was gonna be, all right, talk to me about the techniques that would help a leader translate their ideas to the external world. But I'm gonna step back and ask you a different question. Help me understand what are the specific techniques a leader can use first to understand what their ideas are, what's true for them.
Marianna Lead (08:21)
Well, I think that there are just so many things to consider. And I think that the first thing to consider is that, well, first of all, do you have an idea or not yet? Right? You know, so if you do have an idea, then how does that idea make you feel? How does it make you feel? If you feel strongly about it, if you're passionate about it, if you believe in it, if it just like lights you up, then there's something to it. And then we can explore further.
And another big question is why? Why do you think that this idea needs to exist? Right? Because if it exists because, you know what, I want to be famous. That's not good enough. Right? That has nothing to do with the idea itself. So the idea itself needs to be the fuel that lights you up and that fuel is connected. It must be connected to who you are.
Kayshia (09:14)
Mmm.
Marianna Lead (09:14)
That's the
connection that cannot be severed. This connection needs to be actually identified because a lot of times it's not identified. So for instance, if you want to have a business that's full of adventure, so that has to fuel you. And the idea of adventure must be part of who you are. And then you have to dig deeper and understand why is it part of who you are, right?
Because the answers to those questions is going to be also the things that we're going to be basing strategies about how to make it appealing to those who will buy it. Because the whole idea of branding, so we're talking about branding and marketing now, the whole idea of that is to find people who are thinking and feeling like you. It's about finding your tribe. It's not about being liked by everyone. It's actually quite
The opposite, right? Because if you stand out and you have a true brand, then you will have people who love you and people who don't care. And that's okay. That's the whole point, right?
Kayshia (10:25)
Absolutely. I think being selective is so important. If you were to appeal to everyone, that would be insane a little bit, right? Like chaos in a lot of ways. And you hear that in any marketing 101 is like niche down. Don't have a target audience. that's super broad. I love that you share like to dive into what connects you to your why you have to explore. There's almost like this exploratory phase.
what lights, to be able to find what lights you up. Do you find with other leaders when you're coaching them that that is probably the number one most important phase of like a coaching relationship or coaching engagement that you have and does it take the longest? I've interviewed and also coached leaders that find almost like a pessimism around, well,
nothing lights me up. I can't think of anything. talk to me a little bit about that.
Marianna Lead (11:23)
Yeah, so it right. mean, we have all kind of different people. And like I said, people come in or become even become leaders just because someone owns a business or even have an idea doesn't mean that they're a true leader.
Right? Because a leader means, in my opinion, is someone who can lead, you someone who is worthy of following. There must be some things of substance to that individual that will compel other people to follow. And so there are some people who have had really good ideas and maybe they were really excited and maybe now they're
hired, that's a possibility. And then just thinking about leaving legacy and retiring. And maybe that's a completely different conversation because they're not starting their journey. They're kind of looking for exit strategy. So just like any coaching conversation, I think that one of the very first thing I ask my clients is, what do you want? Like, why are we here, me and you, right? What are you looking to achieve?
Kayshia (12:31)
What do you want out of this?
Marianna Lead (12:34)
through us coaching together. And then it becomes very clear. Like I want to rejuvenate our culture because people are kind of falling asleep. I'm not sure about what next product or service to use or whatever other issue that may be. But you and I, how many times we've seen companies that they have all of those things written out on their walls, know, vision, mission.
strategic plan every single year and how many meetings may be devoted to that. And people are just like, God, another meeting, right? And then it just stays on the wall and it has zero impact on anyone. It just looks nice. These words on the wall remain on the wall and they're not alive because they don't have connection to the leader and to their vision.
Kayshia (13:01)
value.
Mm-hmm.
Marianna Lead (13:29)
Right? And so it has to be real. And if it's real, then when people look at these words, they actually mean something and get them and get them going and get them excited. Right? So.
Kayshia (13:41)
I see what you're doing
there. Yeah, so I love that connection you're making with leaders creating values and mission and vision that are connected to them, like taking it back full circle. If it is not genuine to you as a leader and you can't drive it with a why, then it will never be walked in your business. You won't walk the talk. It will just stay on your wall because it's not important. It's not connected to you.
I love that. Thank you for sharing that connection. I'm curious to hear, getting into the nitty gritty of actual tools or techniques, how a leader can get into this space of imagination, things like mental rehearsal, are they effective?
Marianna Lead (14:28)
Well, I mean, we can actually think of a movie. So I think that all of us watch movies and love movies because it's just a really great pastime, right? And how many times you watch a movie and you think, why did they write that ending? It's just not satisfying. They should have wrote something different. How many times do you say this to yourself? And...
or even fantasizing what the ending could be, especially when it's like a series, right? And it's like you're watching one episode after the next and like, how is it all going to end? How's it all going to pan out?
Kayshia (14:58)
doing that right now with an audiobook
I'm listening to. I'm like, why did she end it this way? Same.
Marianna Lead (15:03)
Right? And so imagine this is your life.
Kayshia (15:06)
Mmm.
Marianna Lead (15:07)
Imagine because we're all kind of writing our own scripts. Yes, of course, there are things that are outside, know, the external influences clearly, but same thing when we are watching characters on the screen, right? I mean, so there are always these interrelationships and dynamics and whatever, right? And so I look at it as you can actually
Kayshia (15:22)
Hmm.
Marianna Lead (15:32)
Imagine something you can imagine a different ending or different involvement of something without any risk. Because I already know my business. I know my business. I know who's around me. Like I know people that I work with. I know everything that needs to be done. Everything that's already set. Everything that still needs to be done. Right. Whatever research needs to be made.
Kayshia (15:42)
It's on.
Marianna Lead (15:59)
I mean, it's all in my mind. Usually leaders do have lots of things in their heads, like simultaneously, right? Because there's a lot of balls in the air that we have to deal with all the time. You know, and so knowing all of this, you can write a pretty good script because you know all the characters.
Right? You know, all the characters and it takes, it doesn't take a lot of time. So let's say, let's say I have, I don't know, a product or a different two ways that I want to go. And I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to left or I want to go right. Like, I don't know. Well, okay. Let's imagine, right? Let's just imagine this. We use this technique. Actually, as you said, mental rehearsal.
Kayshia (16:21)
power.
Marianna Lead (16:45)
It's so effective for decision-making for anyone, not just for leaders, but just for anyone, like career choice or job choice or anything. But so, you know, a leader wants to get something done or a vision that wants to be implemented. Like it's tugging on his sleeve or her sleeve saying, I implement me. want to be alive. And so you can kind of imagine what would happen.
And you can imagine it one way and it's important to assimilate into it. And what I mean by that, bring the future into the present moment, quite literally. So to feel the feelings, smell the smells, right? Whatever the smells are there. Are you outside or inside? What are you wearing? Who is around you, right?
what's happening at the moment to really have, that client that that leader to go through one day of that day of that vision mentally. And the amazing thing with imagery is that it takes their little time. So they're just going to usually close their eyes or just look at the ceiling and just literally take a couple of minutes and you can.
experience a whole day within a minutes because we are like really magical creatures, but we just don't take charge of our own magic. Right. And so they visualize that they're assimilated because it's kind of happening right now. The interesting thing about our body, our physiology and our humanity is that we don't know the difference.
Kayshia (18:18)
Mmm.
Marianna Lead (18:36)
between what's actually happening and what we are imagining in terms of our physicality, because our body is going to respond the same way. Like if I'm going to, I'm going to give, I can give you another example. If I'm going to ask you to pretend and imagine that you have a slice of lemon in your hand, a slice of lemon in your hand, right?
Kayshia (18:40)
you
who said that I've already tasted and I'm like, sour.
Marianna Lead (19:02)
Exactly, exactly. And you're salivating and you feel a sour in your gums, know, exactly. But you know, you know, like, I'm not fooling anyone. You're not fooling anyone. You know that there is no lemon and you can't help yourself. I can't help myself. I'm feeling it now too, just, and I'm doing this exercise, you know, and so I'm feeling it too. And because this is how we are functioning and this is why movies work.
Kayshia (19:12)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Marianna Lead (19:30)
By the way,
right? Cause you watch a movie, something sad happens, you get sad. Something happy happens, you get happy, but you have to get emotionally involved. If the characters are not interesting, if the script is not there, it's just going to turn off TV or switch the channel, right? Or just, I don't know, fall asleep. Right? And I think it's the same thing with the vision. If the leader doesn't have a good vision and it's that emotionally enticing, people are going to fall asleep.
switch to a different channel, or go to work for another company, or just not be productive, not really care. It's the same thing, same idea. And so if you have two different things to compare,
Kayshia (20:06)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's like imagine a different
outcome, right?
Marianna Lead (20:12)
Exactly. So, you know, if you have two different things to compare, you feel it one day and then you go and you feel another option and you assimilate into that, associate into that fully, associate fully your body, mind. And then you can come back and say, well, you know, which ending did I like better? You know, which script did I like better? Which of what experience is more of me?
You know, what is most sustainable for me? Because if the leader doesn't lead, who is going to lead? And I don't care how big the company is. Because when we're talking about a culture, know, company culture, we're talking about the culture of a leader. And then it goes and disseminates.
Kayshia (20:45)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So powerful. When I think about leaders who are in high pressure situations or they have to make a really tough decision, I love the idea of using this tool because to your point, is very low risk. It is no risk. You are literally just imagining what might it look like. On the flip side, if you're in a situation, even personally, let's remove work and you're just not
feeling like your life is as vibrant as you'd like it to be, or you don't have the village of support that you want, imagine a different outcome. I also love the analogy of the movie. It's like, are you the main character in your movie today? Put yourself back in that frame and imagine what life you might live. Imagine what your business might do if you were to X, Y, Z. It's just such a powerful.
technique is to get into that space of imagination. But speaking of preparation, self-talk is another powerful, I think often underutilized tool. know that how we talk to ourselves can either propel us forward and it can also kind of take us backwards. I'd love to get some advice from you for professionals that are maybe looking to transform that internal dialogue, that narrative that they have.
to better support their career goals.
Marianna Lead (22:25)
Well, that's another tool that we don't understand. Unfortunately, it's not taught in schools, even though it should be, right? But a lot of things are not taught in schools that should be taught in schools. But so we are taught to speak negatively to our children, to ourselves. This is the society that most people live in and not just United States, Europe, too. I mean, probably even more so than us, actually. Right.
And so in Asia, I mean everywhere, and we grow up thinking the same thoughts to ourselves. And again, research finds that positive thinking...
creates the environment for you to achieve it. Like really like understand understanding that it's wild. Just how you speak to yourself is creating the environment for you to actually make it happen or not. So usually people will say, like I say, what do you want? Our beginning of our conversation. And I can't tell you how many people start by describing what they don't want.
Kayshia (23:15)
Mm-hmm.
Yes, absolutely.
Marianna Lead (23:34)
Right? Well, I don't
want to be poor. I don't want to be tired anymore or whatever other things. It's like, okay, thanks for sharing. That's nice. What do you want? Right? And so we go through this exercise actually. But this is how we speak to ourselves most of the time. scientifically speaking, mean, everything that we've
Kayshia (23:37)
Mm-hmm.
Marianna Lead (23:58)
done and have known for centuries is now is being proven by science. That's amazing to me because now we have all kind of ways of proving things. so things that I've been teaching, I don't know, many, many years ago, like 40 years ago, now they're proven. It's a proof. So we think with imagination.
Kayshia (24:06)
Mm-hmm.
Marianna Lead (24:24)
We don't think with words. Words that don't create imagery are being ignored by our brain, quite literally.
If I'm going to say to you, Keisha, please do me a favor. Don't think of a baby with a mustache. Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do it.
Kayshia (24:46)
did.
Marianna Lead (24:46)
Right?
So the words don't, do, it, they have no meaning. There's no imagery. But I gave you the image of a baby with a mustache and that's it. You're probably going to dream it tonight.
Kayshia (24:59)
right into it. ignored everything else you said and that's all I could think about. Wow.
Marianna Lead (25:04)
So can you imagine, no pun intended, if someone says to themselves, I don't want to be poor. So the images that come flooding, being poor. So you're programming yourself, your mind and body, exactly for what you don't want.
Kayshia (25:22)
That's a lot.
Marianna Lead (25:22)
This is
how it works. This is how it works. Literally, it literally works like that. Right. And so we have to retrain ourselves to say, well, what does it mean to actually be, to actually have enough money? Right. You some people feel awkward saying, you know, I want to be rich. Well, you don't have to be rich to be happy. Well, how much money do you need to, to, be happy? Right. If we're talking about financial health, maybe those are the words. I want to be financially healthy.
Kayshia (25:50)
Mmm.
Marianna Lead (25:51)
or I want to be financially sustainable. If you're comfortable with saying I want to be rich and if you want to be rich by all means, you know, you have to feel truthful about it. Right. You have to believe in what you're saying. You have to be able to imagine it. And because if it's too far fetched, your subconscious mind is just going to reject.
Kayshia (26:16)
Mm-hmm, 100%. And our thoughts drive our emotions and then they drive our behaviors. So I love like the idea of replacing that scarcity term with something more abundant, more focused on what you want, because then your mood actually, your emotions might change and then that'll change how you show up in the world,
Marianna Lead (26:36)
Exactly. So what's going to happen if I say I want to be rich and if I'm not comfortable with it, you're still going to see the images of someone being rich. So it's still better than saying, I don't want to be poor. But you're not going to see yourself being rich. You're going to see someone else because you can't really relate to it fully. That's what usually happens. But even that is better than saying something mean to yourself, really.
Kayshia (26:49)
Mm-hmm.
Marianna Lead (27:06)
Or even on a smaller scale, like people who are running late and say, like, I don't want to be late anymore. Like I'm usually, I'm usually consistently late and I just don't want to be late anymore. What are you seeing? You think images of yourself being late in the past, right? Maybe in the future. It's like, it's all about being late. But if you rephrase it to, am from now on always on time. I am on time.
Kayshia (27:17)
Mm-hmm.
Marianna Lead (27:32)
or maybe a couple of minutes early, you're seeing a very different picture.
Kayshia (27:35)
Mm-hmm.
Wow. If someone can't relate to something they're imagining, is there anything that they can do to get closer to that?
Marianna Lead (27:47)
Yeah, rephrase it, just simply rephrase it with something that you can relate to. Like we were talking about financial health, financial sustainability versus being rich, right? So you can always replace it with something that's more realistic for you. But clearly, know, like if I want to be 5'9 and I'm 5'1, it's not gonna happen. Right? I can visualize all I want, you know, but...
Interestingly enough, if I say, I can say I carry myself as a tall person and people will see me as such. I'm actually, very small, but people always tell me, you know, when they ask me this and I tell them how tall I am, really? I always thought that you were like, you know, because I carry myself tall, you know? And so these things matter. And you also, can look at
Kayshia (28:23)
you
Marianna Lead (28:45)
actors and actresses that you like and actually look at their actual height. that you may be actually surprised.
Kayshia (28:52)
Actually, I think I was surprised when I heard Bruno Mars, when I realized Bruno Mars was as short as he was, I didn't think he was as short. Side topic, I think that's such valuable guidance. Internal dialogue is just one part of the equation though, right? I want us to think about, now let's bring this and translate that to the organizational level. Many companies unknowingly and also
due to the leaders that are operating those companies operate from this place of scarcity. So they're competing for resources for talent. How can leaders shift their mindset and foster a culture of abundance and collaboration within their organizations using some of the practices that you were talking about?
Marianna Lead (29:41)
Yeah. Well, I mean, coaching does exactly that. Somewhere alongside with coaching back in seventies, was appreciative inquiry. I mean, it's still around, right? The rich inquiry coaching, it's all about that. It's about feedback forward, right? It's about what works. It's about, let's look at what works and what do we need to do to make it work? Right. That becomes pragmatic, sustainable and positive.
Kayshia (29:49)
Love it.
Mm-hmm.
Marianna Lead (30:09)
So yes,
we'll learn from mistakes. We do look at mistakes, but from position of learning and versus let's not to do this, but what do we do instead? And actually this is true for human behavior and for our habits, right? According to neuroscience, you can't just erase the habit, but you can start doing a new one. And then the old one is just simply going to be forgotten if you do something instead of it, right?
It's the same thing with organization and the same thing with every single employee that is working for the company. So we don't have to necessarily explain your science to our employees and to our managers, but just simply go with what do you want and just ignore as many times as you hear what they don't want and just keep asking the same question. What do you want? What do you need? What must happen?
in order for us to move forward as a team and as a company. And so these type of conversations become extremely productive. And at that type of meeting, no one is going to fall asleep.
Kayshia (31:08)
Mm.
Right, I already feel more energized by that idea than talking about all the problems, talking about solving problems.
Marianna Lead (31:29)
Yes, right. And so, but again, everything is under the umbrella of the company's culture. All of that comes from that head, you know, so the leader, the DNA of the company. And then it disseminates into what it means. What does the company's culture mean? What is it? And then the company's culture
Kayshia (31:45)
Mm-hmm.
Marianna Lead (31:57)
is translated into all kinds of ways that products and services are sold because they're going to be offered differently depending on that culture and different types of customers or clients are going to be attracted to that service or product. mean, it's just like two plus two equals four, but I don't know how many people actually think that like that. It doesn't have to be that complicated.
Kayshia (32:13)
Mmm.
Yeah,
it's a trickle down effect too, right?
Marianna Lead (32:27)
completely, yes, completely domino effect, trickle down effect. And I think that it's important to take care of all of those pieces. So there's a leadership team, you know, and we like, there's a team coaching that's becoming more and more popular right now. And individual coaching that has been popular for like, and none of this is all that new, by the way, right? I mean, it's already...
Kayshia (32:54)
Mm-hmm.
Marianna Lead (32:56)
and accepted fact that it works. And it works exactly because it has a forward moving thinking.
Kayshia (33:05)
Yeah, it's just finally getting
the recognition it deserves.
Marianna Lead (33:09)
Yes, it's forward moving thinking. And it also invites people to think for themselves versus just kind of listening to what they need to do. I mean, it's good to have consultants. It's good to have different options, but you have to be the person who decides what you like, what you don't like, how you want your everyday to be, what face you want your company to have, because that face is a narrow of your face.
Kayshia (33:37)
Yeah, I think coaching is so powerful for leaders on an ongoing continuous basis, not something you do in like, yes, there are those intervention types, but I strongly believe that, especially at the executive level, equipping your executive leaders with coaches is super important. And I want to touch on appreciative inquiry that you
just so lightly dropped into the conversation because it's such a powerful tool that yourself and I are super familiar with. But if you're a leader and you're listening, you're like, what is that? It's AI, appreciative inquiry, not the AI you're thinking, artificial intelligence. It's a method that coaches or organization development practitioners can use to kind of get you thinking about that forward movement and that vision, right? It's about asking questions to help people.
Marianna Lead (34:07)
.
Kayshia (34:31)
think through what's working, what are our strengths, what are the opportunities that we have. I also think about the SWOT versus SOAR model. So the SOAR is that positive, appreciative approach to a SWOT. Instead of looking at the weaknesses, you're looking at what are our strengths, what are the advantages of our business, and really help people understand how we can make
positive progress. So I just wanted to share that. I think it's such a powerful tool. And if you've got a coach that can do it on individual, but also facilitate it through the teams, so powerful.
Marianna Lead (35:08)
Absolutely, I totally agree. And I think that coaching is almost like, they're like twins, appreciative inquiry and coaching, they're twins in my, in my, the way I see it, because coaching is completely and totally forward moving and based on learning from mistakes and moving forward. Right. And even questions, like we were talking about,
mental rehearsal, right? And so even questions like, what would it look like? The one that you asked, you asked in Keisha, right? So that is a very typical coaching question. What would it look like? That question is based on curiosity, but also positivity and future orientation. And it does include imagination. How can you think of a future without imagining something?
Kayshia (35:56)
Yeah, I sneak those questions in with any leader that I'm working with, even if it's not a formal coaching engagement. If they come to me with a problem, my immediate thought is, you know, what, what does the ideal situation look like for you in this? You know, what does success look like for you just to kind of, and, without realizing it, they are starting to imagine, right? They're using that, that imagination that so often gets just pushed to the side in the quote unquote business world. So.
super powerful. I also want to talk on a related note around leaders' expectations and how they shape team performance. Can you share a little bit about how self-fulfilling prophecies play out, let's say, in workplace dynamics and what are some practices that leaders can adopt so that it maintains and sustains positive outcomes?
Marianna Lead (36:50)
Yes, well, there are a couple of things actually that I want to like we have time to for me to share. So number one thing is your expectation, the attitude. We don't we don't really understand the like how much how much it weighs on the outcomes. I was teaching a class at NYU on interpersonal communication skills like a long time ago.
Kayshia (37:10)
Mm.
Marianna Lead (37:18)
And I came up with this exercise and I still do it with teens sometimes. And like I break people in couples, in pairs. And I say, well, imagine that one of you is a homeowner, you're neighbors, like you're both neighbors. And one of you is going to come and just ask for to borrow milk. Right? And so very simple, something basic. And so the person who is asking to borrow milk,
doesn't know anything, doesn't think anything, you know. And the person who is opening the door, I say to them, while you're opening the door, I want you to know that your neighbor had just been released from prison.
Kayshia (38:01)
Mm-hmm.
Marianna Lead (38:01)
And it's not someone that you really want to get friendly with. How you going to open the door? And so, and the person who is opening, who is asking for milk, just very, so, may I borrow, hi, how are you? May I borrow some milk? And the response is very different, even though I tell them to smile and say, yes, sure, just do, so they have a script, right? But how they feel about it, what they're picking up from each other is very different.
Kayshia (38:24)
Yeah.
Marianna Lead (38:29)
And then I do the second version where I say, now do the same exact words. And now you, this neighbor also just moved in recently and they're someone famous and you really want to get to know them more.
Right? And so, but the person who is asking for milk doesn't know anything. Like they wouldn't tell them those different things. And then we asked them how the same words were used. You still got your milk, right? What did you feel? And they pick up on all of that stuff. I mean, they don't know exactly what the thoughts were, right? And so when we're working in the team, the team is focused on
Kayshia (39:00)
in hospital versus... Yeah.
Marianna Lead (39:09)
the whole idea of a team, that there is a common project, there's a common goal, there's a common purpose for the team to exist, right? So there's a lot of interdependency. So if I'm asking you to do something, if I'm asking you about the progress on something and you hate me or you don't trust me or whatever, right? So even if you give me the response that I'm looking for, it's going to impact our relationship the way you do it. And...
Kayshia (39:27)
Right?
Marianna Lead (39:38)
Excuse me. And even when you are listening for the request, you're going to be either suspicious about the request because you don't trust that person and thinking, why? Why does she asking me for that? Like, really? What's really behind that? Or how many times is she going to ask me for the same thing or whatever else? Right. Or it's like so annoying. Whatever negative thoughts that could be or versus.
really, that's no problem. Okay, I'm hoping that it's going to be helpful or whatever, right? So the attitude means how people are going to be responding to each other and work together as a team. So that's number one thing we're gonna go through, which is establishing trust, because without trust, you can't move forward. Now, the second thing.
that may be surprising that I do cover is that you don't have to like each other.
Kayshia (40:33)
Right.
Marianna Lead (40:35)
You don't have to like each other.
Kayshia (40:37)
Mm-hmm.
Marianna Lead (40:38)
It's great. It's absolutely amazing when team members love each other, support each other in everything, like to hang out and have beers together and eat pizza or whatever. It's amazing, right? Go on retreats and whatever outings. But realistically speaking, not every team and not every member of the team is going to like each other. And I think that it's not a reasonable request.
But a reasonable request is how can you be human, respectful, and work together productively? So at the very least, you can be neutral.
Kayshia (41:08)
Yeah.
Marianna Lead (41:15)
Take emotions out of it. You're not marrying them, right? You're not living with them. They don't have to be your friends. You don't have to hang out at the work, right? But it's about how can you be productive and neutral without putting some negative ideas and thoughts and attitudes before you're being asked something.
Kayshia (41:25)
Uh-huh.
And just like a basic foundation of respect, right? Mm-hmm.
Marianna Lead (41:40)
Exactly.
It's just back to treat other people the way you want to be treated.
Kayshia (41:46)
Yeah, like a human. Yeah. I love that.
Marianna Lead (41:48)
Like a human, exactly.
Kayshia (41:53)
Well, thank you so much, Mariana, for all those amazing insights. Would you like to share anything else with listeners today?
Marianna Lead (42:01)
I really enjoyed our episode today. Thank you so much for having me, If any organization is looking to implement coaching culture or a leader who may be looking to implement their vision, or if anyone wants to learn coaching skills, then please go to our website.
and book a meeting personally with me.
Kayshia (42:29)
for anyone listening that's interested in contacting Mariana, be sure to check out the show notes with all of the details and links.
Kayshia (42:35)
Well, thank you, Mariana, for such profound insights. Your expertise, I feel like just illuminates how powerful our inner narratives are, but also the visualizations, like how powerful they can be in shaping our personal lives and the organizations that we lead, but also that we work within.
For our listeners, I really hope you can take away actionable strategies to harness the power of your mind to help you create that success and that abundance in your vision.
Kayshia (43:05)
for anyone listening that's interested in contacting Mariana, be sure to check out the show notes with all of the details and links.
Kayshia (43:11)
And until next time, thank you so much, Marianna. I really, really enjoyed this conversation.
Marianna Lead (43:16)
Me too. Thank you, Keisha.
